Hello, and welcome to the Chaos To Calm podcast episode number 56. I'm Sarah, the Perimenopause Naturopath, your guide through this wonderful journey of perimenopause. So if you're over 40 and feeling like you're changing hormones are hijacking your mood, energy, and weight, and you want to change that in a holistic way, then this is the place for you.

Because each episode, I share with you my views on what the heck is happening in your body. Why you're feeling the way that you are and what you can do about it with actionable advice to help you feel more calm, in control, less stressed and comfortable in your body again. So I'm so glad you've joined me.

Thank you for sharing your time with me today. Let's get on with the discussion of today's topic so we can shift your perimenopause experience from chaos to calm. Now, in this episode, I want you to think of me as your trek guide. And because we're going to be walking through a jungle of myths. Today, we're exploring a subject that's really controversial.

It has lots of fallacies, misconceptions, and myths associated with it. And that is soy, especially soy in perimenopause. Is it truly a foe or an unexpected friend? Let's find out. I'm going to tell you, of course, my opinion on it and why. So, let's think about it.

Food advice is like a lush jungle. There's vines, there's trees, there's stuff everywhere. That's the information. That's the different advice. Do this, don't do that. And there's, we have a path that we're walking on from birth to death and we're bombarded with all of those things. And there are lots of little tracks coming off of our path as well.

Some will go somewhere, there are bits of food advice. They might take you somewhere great. And others are a dead end or just going to tell you, take you around in circles. I honestly, like the internet is such a wonderful place and source of information. But it also can be such a source of garbage.

You really have to be discerning and think critically about what you see on the internet. And it's like, that's what we're here for today. We're going to talk about soy because there's so much information there. We think about our path, it's lined with soy plants. And maybe, if fellow travellers have told you these plants are really beneficial, they're a great food.

They're a great remedy. But others have told you they're really dangerous and they're going to worsen your health. That's essentially what the internet is like, isn't it? There's all these bits and bobs about soy. Is it good? Is it bad? I don't know, And I always think, when we're researching, we're humans, we're designed, and our brain works through trying to find confirmation of what we want to see.

And if you want to see that soy is bad, you're going to find a whole bunch of stuff, stuff telling you that soy is bad. If you want to find that soy is good, you're going to find a whole bunch of stuff telling you that soy is good. So, keeping that in mind, keep an open mind to it, I'm going to tell you about why I think soy is actually a friend in perimenopause.

So, spoiler alert, don't stop listening now that I'm going to tell you why and I'm going to tell you how I use soy because that's, I think, the important thing. That's part of our critical thinking. We take the information in and we work out the relevant guidelines and really, science and research are all hypotheses.

It's all testing. And retesting, we learn something, we change our hypothesis, we test again. So it's never black or white. It's never definitive, but I think if we look backward sometimes, rather than just looking forward, and in this case, we want to look backward into the traditional use of soy, we can see what a great food it can be for us, but also see how it's best used.

So, let's have a talk about soy. One thing I really love about soy is it's rich in phytoestrogens. It has lots of isoflavones and they work, I've done a whole episode on phytoestrogens so don't forget about that. But in soy there's isoflavones, they're a phytoestrogen. And they're really beneficial for our body in perimenopause particularly, and menopause when our own estrogen is very low, because those plant phytoestrogens, the plant estrogens, have a much milder effect on our cells.

So In perimenopause, when our estrogen can be fluctuating really high, those phytoestrogens are useful to help modulate that effect and bring it down so we can have less symptoms like heavy bleeding and PMS and rage and, and those sorts of things. When estrogen is low in menopause, they can help boost that.

So we have less brain fog and less insulin resistance and the many other symptoms that low oestrogen can contribute to. So it's a bit like a switch. Phytoestrogens are like a switch. They can switch things up, switch things down. That's what I love about plant foods and plant medicine.

Herbs is they can modulate in a way that medications do not. Medications tend to work on one pathway or one part of a pathway, one enzyme or, one small compound that's part of a bigger biochemical process or metabolic process. And so they just tend to stop or block that or increase it. And then that can put us right out of balance because only one part works.

It's impacted, whereas when we're using food, and plants and herbs, we can modulate so that they're really gentle and they encourage your body to find its way back to balance because that's what our body's always seeking. It's always seeking to return to balance, that homeostasis, but sometimes it just needs a little, a little bump, a little prompt back to that balance, otherwise, it'll find balance in that dysfunction.

So that dysfunction becomes your new normal, your new homeostasis. And we can help it with herbs and food, come back to what we know is optimal function for humans. So, yeah, so soy is really rich in phytoestrogens and like I've just talked about there, it can really help modulate and balance it smooth out.

Perimenopause is a natural state of imbalance. We're not necessarily looking to balance our hormones. Because they are changing and fluctuating day to day, even hour by hour. But we are looking to smooth out those fluctuations so the highs are not super high and the lows super low all in a, 12 hour period so that we're feeling so discombobulated and up and down, that's where phytoestrogens and making sure we're looking after our gut health and our liver, that's all really important to help smooth that.

And also phytoestrogens help our body adjust or adapt better to the changing levels of our estrogen there. So that's why I really love phytoestrogens in perimenopause and menopause. And as I said, Yeah. There's a whole podcast episode where I wax lyrical about how much I love them. So make sure that you go check it out.

It's within the last five or 10 episodes from this one. Thinking about estrogen, as our estrogen dips or gets lower towards menopause, reduces our responsiveness to insulin, which is our fat-storage hormone. So when we're less, our cells are less responsive. We need more insulin in the body to help get glucose into the cells so that we can make energy and the cells can do what they need to do.

So by lifting your estrogen levels phytoestrogens like soy help reduce your insulin resistance. Now, many people might be worried about the link between soy and cancer risks, especially breast cancer. It was once thought, and you can probably find if you dig deep enough, Research that tells you that soy foods increase the risk of breast cancer.

But, moderate, eating a moderate amount of soy foods does not increase the risk of your breast cancer, or other types of cancer. A moderate serving is less than one or two servings per day. And, the key is the quality or the type of soy foods that you're eating. So we're looking for whole soy foods. Tofu, tempeh, edamame.

Not two or three. Grande-size soy lattes every day. That's not what we're doing. I would suggest you eat less than one or less per day. So a diet rich in soy foods across your lifetime actually can help reduce your risk of breast cancer. Because of those isoflavones, fibre, soy is a really affordable and source of protein, really affordable right now.

When everything's gone up, 30 percent cost of living increases in the cost of food. Soy is still relatively cost-effective. Okay, so where did the idea come from that soy increases breast cancer risk? Well, the isoflavones that I talked about already, the plant estrogens, that link between high levels of estrogen, particularly the, more negative or toxic form of estrogen in the body have been linked to an increased risk of breast cancer.

But really, you have to eat a giant amount of soy. To get that, a cat just fell off the bed. So you'd have to eat a giant amount of soy for that to happen. And also, like I said, it's really about the quality of the soy that you're eating. So if you're drinking buckets of soy milk, that's just made with, or using soy protein powders or food that you're eating, processed food that you're eating is rich in the soy isolates, then you're going to have a problem.

It's an ultra-processed or processed food. They tend to be the source of the trouble, isn't it? Like we take something in the Western world and we think, yeah, that's good. We should use that or eat that. It's beneficial. And then we extract the life out of it and eat too much of it, use too much of it, put it in everything, and that's where we have problems.

So remember that phytoestrogens, the plant estrogens have a much weaker action. Then our own estrogens, and they can actually be protective. They're not going to aggressively stimulate estrogen receptors. And that can be really important too, if you're managing cancer risks and you can't use hormones like post-cancer and you can't use hormone replacement therapy.

Disclaimer there as well. I would always say, to check with your health professional, your doctor, nutritionist, or whoever's working with you. Okay. On what is suitable in your particular circumstance there. This is just general advice and conversation. So like I said, the soy isolates, isoflavone supplements, and those types of things, they tend to have a much higher level of isoflavones.

And that's where some studies have suggested a link between, an increased risk of breast cancer, in people who have breast cancer. A personal or family history of breast cancer or even thyroid problems. So quality and consumption. I mentioned that briefly here, not all soy is created equal. We have to remember that, like I said, I recommend sticking to whole minimally, minimally processed soy products.

So tofu, tempeh. I would even say leave the marinades off the tempeh, just buy it plain and DIY there so that you're in charge of how much sugar and other stuff is in there. Edamame, these, you've got the benefits without the drawbacks of the heavily processed options there. I always think it's important to choose organic with tofu and tempeh.

It's a little harder in Australia to get edamame that is organic, but yeah, try and buy Australian, if you're in Australia, try and buy Australian or New Zealand so that you have less, chemical load on them there. And we're more aware of what's being added or done to those foods. And there, I love the edamame that you can buy them frozen.

They're already potted, like de-shelled, super easy to add. To your foods or to your meals there as well, like a sushi bowl or a salad, whatever that you're having, you can add some. There we often make some pan-fried or, or baked tofu that we've marinated or make a scramble with it, with vegetables, remembering it, it takes on the flavour of whatever you're cooking it with.

It has not a pleasant flavour otherwise. So you do need to add spices, herbs, garlic, ginger, turmeric, and all those yummy things with a tamari if you're using the soy sauce. And I forgot to mention miso. That's one of my favourites. Their miso on toast, if you're a Vegemite lover is a great substitute and a much more wholesome option there as well.

If you're going to be just having toast, of course, you're going to have some protein before you have your toast with miso or Vegemite. And, miso added to your soup or your broth really adds that umami flavour really elevates it and lifts the flavour. So I wanted to talk with you about quantities as in the blog, I actually go into more detail about quantities of, phytoestrogens in soy and serving sizes that you would need.

To have, and spoiler, they're giant, and I don't want you to eat that much, like a kilo of tofu a day. No so let's not do that. But what I would like you to consider or to think about is maybe adding it to a few meals across your week. I always think, variety Rotating your foods, whether that's the vegetables or the proteins, even if it's in the same species of beef, having some different cuts or, or, sorry, the same type, like red meat, have some different, have pork or have beef or have lamb or kangaroo or, choose up some different species within that broader group there across your week.

No different with the soy, try and choose some different forms and stick with that minimally processed choice of for it there as well. Oh, and so one thing I'm often asked is if I give my boys soy and yeah, we eat tofu as a family and my kids will eat that too. Do I give them it every day? Do they drink bucketloads of soy milk?

No. One of my kids really loves soy milk. And occasionally I'll buy him, like a litre container of good quality, one that uses whole soybeans and ferments the soybeans. There's only a couple of brands in Australia that do that. And he'll use that or he and his siblings will use that across the week and then that's it.

It could be three months in between drinks, so to speak for that there as well. So, that's all I wanted to cover off today. Myths and truths. I think soy can be a friend, particularly in perimenopause. I think it's really beneficial as part of, one of the phytoestrogens that you choose.

It is a really rich source of phytoestrogens, so it can be really helpful in helping to smooth out Those estrogen levels for ourselves, but of course, there are caveats and guidelines for us there as well. And we're choosing quality. And we're always thinking about like, we encourage you to think about that whenever you're eating, whatever it is that you're eating, choosing variety across your week, choosing whole foods, minimally processed.

I was listening to a book yesterday and it was talking about the concept of traditionally processed, which is like saying. Tofu, how it was traditionally processed and made in the soybeans was made into the tofu, same with tempeh versus ultra-processed foods that we have now, which is like where we've got the soy protein powder or the soy isolate in your protein powder or the whey protein in your protein powder.

So traditionally processed would be things like the kefir, the kombucha, the kimchi miso paste, tofu, tempeh, all of those sorts of things. And, that sort of processing is, helps make the food more accessible or the nutrients in the food more accessible to us. And ultraprocessing makes it very accessible to us, but in a negative way.

Often like it can change the starches, the carbohydrates and make them too accessible or already sort of readily digested for us and less of the nutrients actually in the food. So if we're choosing whole traditionally processed soy products if you are using soy milk occasionally, then you're looking for one that uses a whole bean, is fermented doesn't have any sweetness added to it.

And, for the maximum benefit there as well, choose a nice miso paste or tofu or plain tempeh. And as I said, a moderate. Intake over your week can really support your hormone experience through perimenopause, your weight great source of protein, as I mentioned and so much more. So that's, those are the reasons why I think soy can be your friend for you, for your family.

I think it's really beneficial for us there. I don't know. I'm interested in your thoughts too. Don't be shy. Do let me know if you want to, you can go to the show notes at www.chaostocalmpodcast.com. And you can send me a message there. You can tell me all about what you think of soy or how you use it in your meals.

Or if you have any more questions that maybe I haven't answered for you about soy, then please do let me know. And one of the things that I will be including is soy in the meal plans and nutrition plans for Perimeno Go. So it will be there I'll teach you how to use it and how to enjoy it.

As part of a wide and varied diet. That's the key. I think it's the key to everything for us there. It's really about a wide varied diet. So yeah, visit the show notes if you have a question or you want to tell me what you think about soy. There are other resources there. And of course, while you're there, please subscribe to make sure you don't miss an episode.

Thank you so much for listening and sharing your time with me today. I'm looking forward to exploring gallbladder health with you in the next episode. It's a really common issue that comes up for women in their forties and into their fifties, and all these days, they tend to whip your gallbladder out super fast before you can even say, what happened?

It's gone. And so we're going to explore that, why, how to look after it, how to prevent those gallbladder or gallstone episodes from. Having it from meaning that your gallbladder gets taken away from you. And, I think that we don't have superfluous organs. We don't have anything that really is, that we can just whip out or we should just whip out.

It all serves a purpose. And that's what we're going to explore next week. All about your gallbladder and gallbladder health. And it's really important, I think, to help keep your perimenopause experience moving from chaos to calm. So thank you again. And I'll speak to you next time.