Why Your 40s Are Your New Power Decade: Unveiling the Wisdom of Maga and Moon Cycles with Amanda Trieger

Sarah McLachlan: 0:03

Hey there, I'm Sarah McLachlan. Thanks for joining me on the Chaos to Calm podcast, a podcast designed for women over 40 who think that changing hormones might be messing with their mood, metabolism and energy and want to change that in a healthy, sustainable and permanent way. Each episode will explore topics related to health and wellness for women in their 40s, like what the heck is happening to your hormones, what to do about it with nutrition, lifestyle and stress management, and inspiring conversations with guests sharing their insights and tips on how to live your best life in your 40s and beyond. So if you're feeling like you're in the midst of a hormonal storm and don't want perimenopause to be horrific, then join me on Chaos to Calm, as I share with you how to make it to menopause without it wrecking your relationships and life. Hello and welcome to this episode of Chaos to Calm podcast. I want you to buckle up, because today's episode is going to be quite the journey, and our tour guide is Amanda Trieger.

Sarah McLachlan: 1:14

She's a mother, a naturopath, a herbal medicine goddess, and when she's not busy whipping up herbal potions and lotions in her clinic, amanda is advocating for menstrual health like it's nobody's business such important work to do as well. So Amanda, as I said, is a naturopath. She's also a yogi, doula and obsessed with all things menstrual cycle. She works from her home clinic in New South Wales and she balances her work, a family and even some farm animals there. She's dedicated two decades to supporting women and their health, so she's all about reclaiming womancraft and tuning into our cycle and the wisdom that comes with that. She fuses modern medicine or naturopath medicine with age old wisdom, creating a really holistic approach that fuses the menstrual cycle as a fifth vital sign and really values it as being that fifth vital sign. Amanda has been a sacred birthkeeper and doula, so she's been there for many miraculous moments when life begins and a new mother is born. She's a lifelong student of the world and her expertise delves deep into the biophysical and archetypal energies that could be behind your stress, exhaustion and hormone hiccups there.

Sarah McLachlan: 2:36

So grab a cup of tea and settle in, because Amanda is here to awaken the wise woman or the Maga within you. I hope you're excited. You should be. This is an amazing episode we've got for you. Welcome, amanda. Thank you so much for joining me today, and can you perhaps start by telling us a little bit about yourself and how you came to be menstrual health advocate and so interested in cyclical health and right to passage.

Amanda Trieger: 3:08

Yeah, gosh, it's such a lifelong journey, isn't it, to unpack why it is that we do what we do, but it's always been something. Working with girls and women was something that I have done from a very young age. I trained as a naturopath and a doula at the same time, when I was around 20. So I've been doing this now for 41. So a couple of decades of loving this, this work of really understanding not only the women that I work with, because what I was finding is these great tools and rhythms and techniques that I would teach people. They would see change and they would see shift, and then they would it would all get taken away from them in the linear world that we live in.

Amanda Trieger: 3:55

And so I went on a discovery of my own having a beautiful family and working with so many beautiful women and practitioners and really looking at how do I avoid burnout, fatigue, overwhelm which was unfortunately the story of my life at that point in time, transitioning through motherhood and getting really frustrated with what I knew should be in place and, unfortunately, what's not in place.

Amanda Trieger: 4:27

And it really helped to galvanize where I wanted to go and understanding cyclical awareness was this last moment of really loving my own body and loving my cycle and understanding that menstrual cycle is the fifth vital sign of life, that when I'm really in true alignment, everything else flows with more ease.

Amanda Trieger: 4:50

So it's shifted the way I create relationships. That shifted the way I run my business and my practice, and the women that I was working with were just receiving such beautiful shifts and changes that were really nourishing their entire family and community, not just themselves. And that's why that's what drives me to do this work and it drives me to work with other practitioners and to really get those big ripples of change for positive menstrual health and advocacy out there, because it's ridiculous to me that it's 2022 and women are still facing an uphill challenge when it comes to understanding their menstrual cycle, reality and the whole timeline from birth through our transitions, through our rites of passage, through these transformational portals that women have an amazing capacity to step through. But we're not supported through those, we're not told stories of those, where there's lots of different reasons that we've lost that wisdom and knowledge. But my goal, my aim, my focus in what I offer is always about building that community and connection with that.

Sarah McLachlan: 6:10

Connection. Yeah, I was just going to say that I think the problem for us is the lack of connection with ourselves and our own bodies. But within the way that we live, like Western style is so isolated we grow up with our family and move out and go and live on our own or with our own little family. But if we look at many other cultures, they're doing it right. I think in many ways there's one mortgage to start with, but also the different generations to help each other and learn from and that story If you look at Indigenous Australian storytelling so massive through so many cultures.

Sarah McLachlan: 6:48

But I don't feel like as a white person I didn't have stories. I certainly wasn't talking about menstrual health or menstrual cycle. I felt a lot of shame and I know I'm not alone or dirty and maybe shame's not the right word. I've had this discussion with someone else recently too and I'm not sure that's it. I don't know if you've got any better ideas or descriptors of how people might feel around it when we're moving through our teens and it's almost like we try and hide it, like you hide your hat or your tampon and pretend like it's not happening.

Amanda Trieger: 7:25

This is the taboo in action. This is the menstrual taboo in its full force, because a level of discomfort about a normal, natural biological process that actually helps us to live more vibrantly, to understand our wellbeing and gives us, I would say, extra power to really harness the way that we live our lives. Being disconnected from that being ashamed, being uncomfortable, being in that feeling of needing to hide or pretend I don't know how many times you've turned up at work and your work place is on and everything's perfect and nobody sees anything and put on these superhuman concepts of woman and mother.

Amanda Trieger: 8:16

and it's such a big journey into reclaiming our own comfort with our bodies and a lot of the work that I've been doing over the past couple of years has really been advocacy with girls, because shifting this conversation and talking to the mums, they hear it, but they change it for the girls Just like I work with birthing women, because pregnant women they hear it and they change things because it's of importance to our future generations and so things that may be bothered us a little bit or made us a little bit uncomfortable we see that reflected in our daughters.

Amanda Trieger: 8:55

We're going to get women starting to shift and change and our daughters are asking for better. The studies that are coming out, the information that's coming out, is really clearly saying that this taboo is shifting and changing and it is a ripple effect backwards as well, because as we create girls that are quite comfortable in their body and quite conscious in understanding how their cyclical wellbeing is now in science and finally in literature, which is the first time ever that we're seeing. I think the first is to give you a really ridiculous example, because when we bring it back to the ridiculous, people really understand it. The first ever experiment to test a menstrual capacity so pads, tampons, period undies. However, your testing capacity of absorption was done with actual blood just recently.

Sarah McLachlan: 10:00

Oh, I thought you were gonna say like however long ago. That doesn't surprise me, but it is disappointing.

Amanda Trieger: 10:08

No, that's the first time in the last month that we have actually had an absorption assessment done with blood rather than water or colored liquid. So it reduces it to the ridiculous right Like how, when, even in our science, MedStrucibu is present.

Sarah McLachlan: 10:30

Yeah well, it sounds ridiculous, but it's reality.

Amanda Trieger: 10:34

So, when we understand that it's these really gentle sideways conversations of role modeling, normalizing, just coming up with cycle awareness, that helps us to even just start to become aware of those feelings and what triggers them, yeah, and being really gentle with ourselves around that, and do you think like so this is happening, that changes kind of.

Sarah McLachlan: 10:59

I find that really heartening, because sometimes I think, oh, it's just because of the you know we're hanging out with naturopaths or we're in these circles and we're talking about these things, or but it's good that, yeah, to know that that's not just that, but it's happening sort of in spite of 24, seven, not cyclical society that we live in, like it's pretty much days are the same, I think, and I think that's sort of part of the problem. You know, like men and you know hark back 70 years ago and mostly men were working and women were staying at home, and so that work culture and work spaces they're not, I mean, they are cyclical beings too. They're still, but not like we are. Yeah.

Amanda Trieger: 11:44

Not driven, not driven, not driven by a cyclical nature, but they have a 24 hour day on rhythm right.

Sarah McLachlan: 11:51

So the world is actually designed for men, because men designed it and you know, it's just for them. That's great. Now we need to make our Barbie world like in the movie Barbie I'm assuming you've seen it, because I think everyone has and, if not, go see it and I want to see it again but yeah, where they designed their world, but women have designed it and then the men can take over and it changes and the patriarchy comes in.

Amanda Trieger: 12:19

And is that what is the patriarchy?

Sarah McLachlan: 12:20

Yeah, so you touched on it before as well about menstrual health or your menstrual cycle being that fifth vital sign, and it's something I love talking about with my clients, but can you tell us a bit more? Well, it might be the first time the listeners have heard about what a vital sign is or what that is, but yeah, tell us a bit more about how you use it, maybe in your practice or with your clients.

Amanda Trieger: 12:44

Yeah, so often, it will be one of the consistent tips. So the four vital signs of life that show us how healthy we are are things like heart rate, which shows how quickly our heart's pumping and whether or not we're stressed or we're calm. We look at blood pressure, we look at the breathing rate, we look at temperature. So all of these tools that can feedback information about how well our bodily processes are running, and I would say, although it's the fifth vital sign of life, it's really number one, honestly.

Sarah McLachlan: 13:17

Yes, for me.

Amanda Trieger: 13:19

It drives everything and it influences and it is impacted by everything. So menstrual health is not just a biophysical reality, it's a social, sexual awareness that comes through. It's our physical, emotional, it's our connection with self. It's providing us with a cyclical framework that, if it's in alignment, if it's really healthy, if your body's really nourished, you won't be seeing a lot of symptoms or language of the body coming through on a regular basis.

Amanda Trieger: 13:55

But what I often find with women is because we live in a linear world where it's Monday to Friday, nine until five weekends are holidays, school terms holidays.

Amanda Trieger: 14:05

And what I find with women that are really in a masculine structure or corporate role is they have to bring this into the 1%.

Amanda Trieger: 14:14

To begin with you have to and red school's got a big 1% rule that this concept of how do I bring in a cyclical check-in every day to see where I'm up to, to see how I can support myself, to really understand what I need in this phase of the cycle and that's what I work to really empower that information, because what we eat, how we exercise, we are different hormonal creatures on different days of the month and how we treat ourselves really matters and men don't have that rhythm or that fluctuation, but they also then don't have that creative exposure either. So when we look at a cyclical framework for women, it's also really deeply bound within the creative cycle and the creative framework as well. As how do we start new projects, how do we bring new ideas in, how do we manifest, how do we present, how do we really hit that peak production area where the world loves to live 24 seven. But anyone that's listened to Brené Brown at any time recently understands that you can't live in 24 seven. Thank goodness she's getting through to the corporate structures.

Sarah McLachlan: 15:30

I know it's good, isn't it?

Amanda Trieger: 15:32

Yeah, and we need these times of reflection to reflect the seasons of the year. We have seasons within.

Sarah McLachlan: 15:39

Yeah, I always think it's like you know, take your foot off the accelerator to ultimately move forward further in the long run. And so what you're saying is that or the cycling is breaking down a menstrual cycle you know that 28 to 30 day parent whatever it might be for that person into weeks, or yeah, so into weeks, into four phases.

Amanda Trieger: 16:05

And look, don't, don't misunderstand me. Not everybody has an exact week. Yes, phase last fall, but the concept is the same. So, whether or not you have an active menstrual cycle, of you're regularly getting flow and period time, whether you know where your ovulation is or not, this is where we start to join in the awareness of the menstrual cycle. If you don't have an active menstrual cycle, if there's no physical uterus there, if you transitioned into menopause, if your PCOS and your cycle is erratic or your impaired menopause transition, pregnant or breastfeeding, we recommend at that point that you would start flowing with the moon. So, even though your hormonal rhythms, until they become fairly regular, your driving energy is really in that lunar flow because the hormonal triggers underneath will pattern in and out, trying to move towards that ovulation. It's the body's goal, yeah, so much of the time, you know, other influencing factors can come in and really impact that resilience of the brain and the ovaries and the womb and how everything works together.

Sarah McLachlan: 17:17

So how would that work? Like, say, I'm in menopause, I don't have a cycle and haven't for a long time, and would I? How do I equate that to the different phases of the moon, like the full moon or the new moon? Where would I start the cycle?

Amanda Trieger: 17:35

So I would start by just bringing some moon gazing in. So there's a free I'll give you the link to the free lunar guide that comes along. So, whether you've got if you've got an active cycle, you do the cyclical guide. If you don't have an active cycle, you flow with the moon. So there's a guide for if you're just flowing at the moon and there's a guide for menopause, because, oh, perfect, they're two different things.

Sarah McLachlan: 17:57

Yeah.

Amanda Trieger: 17:58

Yeah, so the information is really relevant to both. So when we flow with the moon, you start wherever you are currently at. There's no perfect start point. The beginning of the lunar cycle is the beginning of a new cycle. It's that dark new moon portal. Yeah, because we know the science now we know the exact moment from dark to new moon, but it used to be when the crescent came in. That was the beginning of the next cycle. So when we're looking at dark new moon portal, there's actually one every month, which is really exciting. September we actually begin a brand new season. It's the beginning of Russia. Shana, it's the head of the new year. It's this really powerful portal of transformation where, in the dark moon, it's a time to let go, to release, to journal out what you don't want to be there again, what you're ready to let go of.

Amanda Trieger: 18:54

Often the week leading up to dark moon you can feel a little bit. Can I put it in a really gentle way? Your boundaries can be really strong and your righteous fire can come up. I'm ready to fight on whatever causes close to my heart. And if you can direct it into that fabulous. It's when it boils out and bubbles up over the rest of the family that it starts to become a problem.

Sarah McLachlan: 19:19

Yes, it becomes a bit awkward.

Amanda Trieger: 19:22

Yeah, and look when we layer in. You know the frameworks that surround us. We are creatures that are impacted by lots of different energies. When we have a menstrual cycle, that kind of drives us. That's our main energetic wheel that we flow through. We also have the lunar energy that comes over us. So if we're in that dark new moon portal, it's a time of release, reflection, dreaming. It's that time of connecting in with your intuition and dreaming of what you're going to bring in for the next cycle. But to do that you've got to let go of something, you've got to let go of what's not working for you. And then, as the energy lifts up towards new, up towards the full moon it's that expansive, new spring, new energy You're going to be more interested in being curious about conversations and starting new projects.

Sarah McLachlan: 20:15

So that would be kind of like ovulation time.

Amanda Trieger: 20:19

So that time would be from, basically from when you're coming out of the crescent moon up to the point where it's like almost full.

Sarah McLachlan: 20:29

And then at ovulation, that full moon.

Amanda Trieger: 20:31

Is that summer, that full moon celebration, those full moon parties, those like look at the energy might be high.

Sarah McLachlan: 20:39

Yeah, yeah, you feel good.

Amanda Trieger: 20:40

Yeah, the flip side of that is you can feel really scattered and really disconnected and really anxious and really busy and really intense.

Sarah McLachlan: 20:49

Oh, that's me around a full moon always.

Amanda Trieger: 20:52

I'm like why can't I get?

Sarah McLachlan: 20:54

anything done. I can't put anything down.

Amanda Trieger: 20:56

Yeah, so it's. It's knowing these rhythms that regularly happen and being able to do your energy management of of. Okay, how do I know me and my being? What sort of foods might I eat? That would be different, that might ground and tether me. What sort of activity might I do? What sort of supports might I put in place? Lots of different aspects of you know how those energies can really impact, but for me, it's about teaching women how to work with those energies and how to recognize when there's dysfunction, because I think society really normalizes dysfunction.

Sarah McLachlan: 21:33

Oh, absolutely normalizes pain, pms, all of that. Yeah, like I'm takes what? 10 years for a woman to get diagnosed with endometriosis or something like that, because they just spend so much time getting dismissed or it's all in the head or that's just what comes with the period. So, yeah, definitely I was thinking why you were talking there. So, as you're cycling, you know you're thinking about maybe the types of tasks or work that you might do, maybe in that scattered full moon time, sticking with the easier or low demand tasks and or things that you can, you know, get that dopamine tick off easily.

Amanda Trieger: 22:12

And you know if that's it's working with, what pattern works for you. What do you find of most days? Because if we're going on archetypal, really good, energetics of I'm balanced, I'm stable, I'm in connection and alignment. So dark new moon is the release. Sometimes your shadow stuff will come up. It's your new intention than planting seeds.

Amanda Trieger: 22:35

So imagine if you've got like a rosebud that's coming down and it's growing that seed the whole way through until you hit full moon and you get to show off all the good things and all flowers and and then we come into harvest and we like things that aren't working anymore and get rid of the stuff and replant the soil and let the seeds, the seed hips, fall back into that white space. Yeah, there's just this such value in living cyclically. It means that we stop burning out, we start to really have function. That's achievable for us as well, because when you know what really works for you, you've got jobs to do over the month and you know that. You know I'm going to be great at that at my menstrual time, because it's a boring job that I don't need my brain to do and I can just do the thing Okay.

Sarah McLachlan: 23:32

Yeah that's really like transformative life changing Absolutely.

Amanda Trieger: 23:39

Imagine if our girls grew up knowing that from from the, you know change goal to shift this paradigm so that when we have and I'm working with CEOs within corporate settings to really start to shift this into their realities yeah, because they are cyclical and most of the women that work for them are cyclical. So if you take advantage of that, if you can utilize that as a as a benefit within your business, great, we can shift businesses as well. So we will see it start to come in through the framework, because if we're shifting the menstrual to go, we're shifting the discomfort of girls to claim what is rightfully their ability to to rhythm their lives and to live in a way that's really healthy.

Amanda Trieger: 24:30

And I honestly think, when we look at the rate of medication around that perimenopause transition of women that are being medicated by high-level antidepressants because of the disconnection and the awareness of their hormonal rhythms, we are just seeing a generation of women that are knowing that it's not the answer and they're sharing their stories. Yeah, starting to speak. We're seeing birth trauma inquiries. I know, isn't that?

Sarah McLachlan: 25:02

incredible, like when I had my eldest child 19 years ago and it was traumatic. No one ever talked about it because, oh, you've got a healthy baby, so it doesn't matter. I think that I feel like this is a real big.

Amanda Trieger: 25:17

we're moving into a cycle of change and the conversation is part of that, and women's voices are really clearly being heard and they are speaking and sharing their stories and going on to podcasts and you know everyone's been given this opportunity to really unite in an awareness of hang on a second, we're all thinking the same thing. We should just do it, yeah.

Sarah McLachlan: 25:43

Well, I think that's the thing, isn't it? For a lot of it, we just because when you're not encouraged to talk about things or I was growing up and probably you the same there's that lack of connection. But technology gives us the opportunity to connect in a way that we've never been able to before. You know, sometimes they're talking about things like this on the radio, but not so much. But you can tune in on a podcast or the internet and find the content that resonates with you, and then you might be unexpectedly be thrust into talking about or thinking about cycling and moving with your cycling, because, yeah, people like us are dropping that in everywhere that we can, everywhere that we can. Yeah, that's it.

Sarah McLachlan: 26:25

And making people understand that common doesn't equal normal, and I think that's the disservice that's done for us across all of the lifespan, whether we're a team of reproductive years, perimenopause and menopause. These really common symptoms or things happening are written off as that's just normal, but actually they're not, you know, and it's like what you were saying with antidepressants being used for so many symptoms, and I think it just builds that disconnection and trust in ourselves and our bodies and I know our bodies are amazing. You've been doing this longer than I have, and I'm sure you're still feeling under an amazement almost daily.

Amanda Trieger: 27:14

And watching women transition through their rights of passage is another amazing way of really recognizing how spectacular we are, because these portals have changed these doorways of transformation and probably we have three major transformative experiences over our lifetime before we then pass, not to mention all of the other amazing things that I'm sure happen to us. But if you ask a woman whether or not she's honored any of those rights of passage, probably the one she's honored is her marriage or her wedding day. Yes, yeah, prepare for it. They have rituals and rhythms. They have cards and gifting. There's an acknowledgement of who you are before this moment will never be the same as who you are after this moment and a recognition of who you are. Starting a new life Not the best one to be like really putting all your eggs in the same basket.

Sarah McLachlan: 28:24

No, I was just thinking that as well, because I'm like it's kind of like we're celebrating that moment when we not lose ourselves, but we become part of like a coupling.

Amanda Trieger: 28:36

And if you haven't really acknowledged your own self and honored your own self. Within that you can understand why marriages are so complicated when we are together, because we're discovering ourselves again. So we start this journey around Menarch when the first period arrives and I dive into Menarch stories and teach other practitioners how to unpack those Menarch stories with women, because there's a few responses that we regularly receive, and one of them is you know, I have no memory of any of that. It's just, you know, it's just always been there and I don't remember anything special or that there's been fear or sadness or upset. But there are very few stories of an empowered, recognized Menarch for women that I've spoken with. And I think this is the perfect place for us to begin because, honoring and acknowledging and teaching the girls, we see a flow through the whole menstruality timeline. We see women not ashamed to ask for support and assistance and demand better care.

Amanda Trieger: 29:51

We see women empowered in their birth choices and empowered in their discussions with their partners about what they like or don't like. They're prepared to say yes and consent to or not. And we see women who are asking for help in their postpartum and saying hang on a second. This society is ridiculous in its expectations.

Sarah McLachlan: 30:11

Yes, yeah, I am seeing that more actually, and it's yeah amazing.

Amanda Trieger: 30:17

Yeah, and we see those women stepping up in menopause and telling their stories of what that transition is like. Because, just like puberty, which is a decade long process for the hypothermic, the churitry, the brain to speak to the ovaries to start that regular conversation and build resilience and pathways which over a decade, if you interfere with that, will have complications. So if we're putting in the oral contraceptive pill, if we're putting in any kind of hormone and contraceptive before that 10-year decade, we see complications coming in and that disconnection from this cyclical wisdom and so we see a flatness that comes in.

Amanda Trieger: 31:03

So you know, at Menarche we have a trigger, we have an awakening. How we celebrate that, how we acknowledge how we're received, it really matters, and a lot of the time the women that I work with we have to do that for ourselves. We have to go back into that timeline and we have to love our inner maiden up and we have to give her the gifts that maybe we didn't get told or gifted at that point in time, so that we can then come into our next transition and integrate that knowledge. So you know, wherever you are in your timeline, whether that's the mothering time, birthing and honoring that right of passage, mother of one or many or whether it's coming into Maga and into that menopause transition which takes a good decade, possibly longer.

Amanda Trieger: 31:49

There's a theme here, there's transition points. Imagine that. You know it's. How do we bring honoring and acknowledgement of what we have learnt, the wisdom that we've gathered? Maga is undervalued within our society in the menopausal woman of standing in her wise woman and harvesting all of the years of experience and offering that back. You know it's undervalued and it's demonized within our culture.

Sarah McLachlan: 32:20

Well, I think probably a lot of women might not even know that term. Maga or you know, have thought about that cycle in the different, you know the maiden that you were talking about before, and then because Maga was new to me as well, like sometimes if we might have heard about the crone.

Sarah McLachlan: 32:40

I mean a group I was in the other day. They were talking about being postmenopausal on a crone and I was like, well, I don't quite feel like I'm old enough to step into crondom, but this is where you were explaining to me about Maga.

Amanda Trieger: 32:53

Yeah, and look when I teach the seasons or the wheels or the energies, we actually layer it all on together. So if you think about Maga as that autumn time, that time of stepping out of the intensity of summer and motherhood and busyness and full moon and go, go, go and all the things for everybody right, and we step into autumn and we slow down and we reflect and we release what we don't need anymore the menstrual cycle, because we already have those tethers in place and we tether to the lunar rhythms and we really understand the lunar rhythms because we've lived with that lunar rhythm inside of us for such a long time.

Amanda Trieger: 33:36

And so we start to embody the wisdom that we've held rather than having to cycle and cycle and cycle. Our attention goes from being of service to everybody to you know, jane Hubbard Collins talks about the veil of estrogen lifting and the hormone of accommodation and community and doing everything for everybody else really shifts and we start to become a lot more aware of what we want, what we are going to define within ourselves. You know, she's the harvest queen, she is the woman in her prime, but unfortunately in our traditional prime we didn't have long lives. So if you hit manopause, congratulations. You're a crone and you're an elder tick, maiden, mother crone.

Amanda Trieger: 34:26

We now have a good 30 years of our life between when we are mother and in time of intensity, and when we are elder crone, sitting by the fire, not going out. I'm sure everyone's got a great grandmother that's like the elder of the family that doesn't leave the house. You go to her, you nourish her, you look after her. That's not our magas. Our magas are bringers of change and the firekeepers and the ones that will stir the pot because they know how to. So we really need this maga aspect to hold community really strongly, because it's those wise women and that reclamation of honoring that wisdom that really does help to balance out the awareness for our society and it's through our storytelling that we start to share this as well.

Sarah McLachlan: 35:21

I did like hearing you talk about it. I just feel really excited, like and I think you know some people that are perimenopause or menopause the end you know well, because our society values young, pretty and fertile. But when you describe that I'm like, well, I'm in that phase but I want to be that. I want to be a changemaker. I want to think about what I want and what I want to do for the next half of my life. I think that's so if we have more conversations around that and what Maga and this phase of life is, who wouldn't want to be in Perry menopause and moving to menopause? I mean it sounds so exciting.

Amanda Trieger: 36:06

Yeah, and it's not the reality that we're presented within society. No, certainly not the reality I grew up with. I I unfortunately was that woman at the the birthday party night and the girlfriend who they're all I I don't drink because I just it makes me violently ill. It's not a Choice and reflection on anybody else.

Amanda Trieger: 36:31

But I was pretty sober and I got introduced to this beautiful woman and she was like, oh, my friend, stop me all about you. She's the night, absolutely love you. And and then she, she stopped and she kind of listened to the conversation I was having with another woman and she goes. You're really scaring me and I'm just gonna walk away because I was saying you know, we go into our menopause transition at around 40, like regardless where you are and your parenting journey, your body, biochemically, you know, around that time, energetically, we shift into Transition and we have to be careful with ourselves and we have to look after the same as coming into autumn, look after your immune system, look after your well-being, like really nourish yourself. And because I'd said the word menopause, she was like on the other side of the room going we such fear well, and I think that's also because we tie menopause to age and menopause equals old.

Sarah McLachlan: 37:30

Yeah, and actually the reality is because of how long we live now it's not. I mean, I'm not 49 and I'm menopausal.

Amanda Trieger: 37:38

Yeah.

Sarah McLachlan: 37:39

I say to people I think this is the best phase of my life. My kids are getting older. My youngest is now nine. We can do more, you know. Financially we're more secure than we were when we were only on one income. It life is is good For for me and and I think, yeah, this is great. I can do a lot. I know what I want and I know what I don't want. Yeah, and I'm really clear on that. In a way, I wasn't five or ten years ago.

Amanda Trieger: 38:06

It's a yeah, consciously redefining that as of benefit, transition and transformation of like. If you want to be the same person turning up every day, that's not gonna happen. If you go, if you're biologically female, you it will. It will be an unlearning process.

Amanda Trieger: 38:25

Yeah of recognizing cycle as benefit, as Power, rather than consistency, and turning up and doing the same thing every day and doing willpower. What you said you were gonna do, you know, like we've been taught a Really dysfunctional way for a cyclical creature. So it's, it's a big shift, it's a big change, but it is a powerful one, and, especially when you're at that menopause transition, it's it's one where you really plant your feet and Cut through all the crap.

Sarah McLachlan: 38:58

Yeah, and I, and I think that's why it can be quite dangerous for many relationships as well, because it's like we're going through this major evolution and and change and the you know particularly men around us or with us, then you know they have a andre pause. It's a little change but it's certainly not as such a big shift as us, and if they don't keep up, well, they're not. Yeah, and if we're not talking about that and Explaining and describing how this feels for us I know I do it often with my husband, either like just bear with me, brain rewiring, I can't remember the thing or yeah, I'm really clear, I don't want to do this, or I'm gonna do this, or I need to look after myself in this way. So he knows, most of the time he knows where he's at with me and what's going on, and he can adjust and change too. But I feel like I understand now why there's lots of relationship changes for women in this phase of life.

Amanda Trieger: 39:58

Yeah, and we redefine our boundaries and how our partners are able to grow with us. Is is interesting. You know, you talk about the, the, the ability for us to know our own beings, let alone communicate that to the men, who have no Consciousness around, no even lived experience really. So we go into the seasons with them. We're like, you know, summer, yeah, it's like really hot and really intense and really overwhelming and like the party all the time, and that's how I'm feeling right now. Or like the middle of winter where you can't go out and you just want to be inside, cold, and you know, it's like physiologically. But and my husband has been an amazing advocate and we we've worked through he knows more about women's bodies, of menstrual health and well-being and, but yeah, anyone else I know, and and he still comes up against blocks of. I shouldn't really be speaking about this. Yes, it's uncomfortable for him.

Amanda Trieger: 41:01

Yeah because that's what's been ingrained. So when we look at the triggers and how we respond to these big conversations around changing dynamics, it's interesting. But One of my favorite Stories was about a man that was asked you know how he'd lived with the one woman for the whole of his life? And he said I was so lucky.

Amanda Trieger: 41:25

I fell in love with a maiden who was like, vibrant, had all this energy, and then I got to be Partner in life to a mother who nourished my children and showed me what love was and Really helped to support me to grow as a human by watching this, this outpouring of love and capacity and motherhood, and then I watched this woman completely transform herself and Come back into Maga and come into that rite of passage of really owning what she wanted and who she was, and and I got to be a partner on that journey and I think that really reflected for me. You know, no matter who we are, at that soul core, it's about how we respect and support each other, of who we Become. So I try really hard to remember that with my husband when I'm like You're not doing things that I want you to do and he's like yeah, just tell me, tell me, let me know that that was said.

Sarah McLachlan: 42:28

It's just beautiful. So I wanted to ask you before we finish up, because I think we're talking. You know you were talking about rights of passage and being cyclical, and Something I was thinking of earlier in the gear was how do I mark that I'm in menopause? Do I throw like a party, like what, say what would you suggest? Like what do you what?

Amanda Trieger: 42:48

are you?

Sarah McLachlan: 42:49

thinking when it comes time for you, or what do you suggest with your clients? How do we mark this right of passage from mother to Maga?

Amanda Trieger: 42:58

Yeah, and it's so different for everybody. So for some women it's a private, ceremonial aspect of they'll buy themselves an amazing piece of jewelry, or they will Send themselves away for a weekend, or they will just really honor their connection with self. What I do recommend is having something that you begin anew as you crowned Maga, so in the the facilitations that I offer, it is a circle, so it's. You know, if all of our women come together and they offer their stories of their Maga self, so it might be that they're not Maga yet and they're offering their wisdoms of what they hope for the future. It could be that they're the crones of your community and that they offer the wisdom back, or it could be that they're the maidens watching this transformation and really soaking up that wisdom as well. But when we had a circle of it's almost like a blessing way of yes, how do we really acknowledge who you are, what you offer and the transition of where you are stepping into, so the role that you become, so we can bring a ritual into it where we routine intentions. You can make like a salt scrub or bring all the herbs in it and bring all the wishes into that, that beautiful Creation, and then, you know, scoop out some and everybody takes a jar home and comes into connection that way. But what we're doing is is acknowledging this role as the transformation in the way that it's best suited for the woman who's present, but also really role modeling that for the rest of the community. You know, crowning, harvest queen, of what does that look like? A wreath of flowers and acknowledgment and a letting go. You know, some women do a closing the bones ceremony which is like a wrapping and a closing off of a stage of life Drum journey. So you can make these aspects big, you can make them really small and sacred, mm-hmm, but acknowledge it so it's. It's interesting.

Amanda Trieger: 45:09

We're having a pretty big conversation the other day of you know what is what is Maga, when is Maga and and what is menopause. Because I've got some clients that are in their late, you know, late 20s, early 30s, that are in a menopause of body Currently, but they're not in their Maga, they're not in that transition phase, but they don't have an active menstrual cycle. And so it brings up these conversations. You know, if I have my ovarian function, so I have a cycle, but I don't have a physical cycle, am I coming into Maga. How do I know I'm coming into Maga? So for me I give it a time and an age because it really sits with me. Maga, transition begins at 40 In our transition time. We are not Maga, we are not mother, but we're in this like portal of shift and change. Yeah, by physically. Menopause is the last menstrual period. Birthday, 12 months after you've last played.

Amanda Trieger: 46:13

Yeah, it was like congratulations, Tick, you've hit 12 months. What does that mean?

Sarah McLachlan: 46:19

I know it is. It's kind of like you know, you don't even ever know that it's going to be your last period until it's already been and gone. Yeah, and yeah, because that would, otherwise it's a natural celebration point or ending point, yeah.

Amanda Trieger: 46:36

You have different kind of relevance, yeah. So one of the women, one of my mentors, judy Moore, had a beautiful practice in perimenopause where she got and you could do it with anything that was your thing, but she had a little box of beads and a little string of beads and every dark moon that she didn't bleed she would blitz, she would string like a little dark bead Like dark bead yeah, I'm getting too many words in my mouth and every time she blitz she would thread a bright red bead or something different for the days that she bled, and so she could count the moons in between her bleeds. But it also gave her then an awareness and a potency and a checking back in with her cycle that she could see the patterns that were coming forwards and really have gratitude and acknowledgement of the transition state that she was in. And I think that's a really beautiful practice. Whether it's a little book that you get or a little beading kit, some people I know crochet a line every time. They do a blanket line every time. Yes, that's also good.

Sarah McLachlan: 47:42

We did a bracelet for a blessing way when I was having my third child. We did that and it's so lovely to see it and have it and hold it and then, yeah, I like, yeah, our tethers and our inkers are so important to our remembrance of and I think you know our grandmother's tables.

Amanda Trieger: 48:06

our grandmother's dressing tables would have been their altars. They're special things for us today. It's how do we bring some of those rituals and rhythms into? If it's a big ceremonial circle that you want to have like that blessing way, it's beautiful. Or if it's a private ceremony of like, how do you really connect in with yourself and honour this right of transition?

Sarah McLachlan: 48:30

for you, and is that something that people can read more about on your website? Amanda, and yeah, so we'll pop that in the show notes.

Amanda Trieger: 48:39

Lots of articles on how do we create ritual and rhythm, how do we support our rights of passage and honouring those as well. So I'm happy to have a chat to anyone that really is interested in learning a little bit more about it, because it is such powerful work when we truly step into that connection with self and honouring ourselves like we honour our children and our partners and celebrate them.

Amanda Trieger: 49:04

Yeah, putting ourselves there too. We just went through where my daughter's stepping up towards Menarch and again, like the last period, we don't know when the first one will start. So really checking in with you know how do we celebrate our rights of passage from a young age and with our son.

Amanda Trieger: 49:24

That was done through men, circles and honouring, and a year long well, probably longer than a year, but a dedicated year of how do we really honour the next human that we will become, the next young adult, and what values do we bring through and what understandings do we need as we become this next version of self? And having these rights of passage really change that they don't go out and seek them out for themselves?

Sarah McLachlan: 49:55

Yes, good point. Yes, and we can help that. Do it in a gentle and safe way as well, and like a deeper reflection, reflective state. Yeah, my nine-year-old she's already planning her period party. She wants to know when it's coming. My now 16-year-old we went to a circle together and they had some time on their own exploring the seasons and cycling, so that was really beautiful. And actually now, with what we've talked about today, at the time I remember thinking, oh, I wish I'd had something like this. It would have been the perfect opportunity because I'm sure I wasn't the only mum thinking the same way for us to have our own. It would have been really lovely. There's something about the power of women in circle that's really next level, isn't it? Trans-punitive.

Amanda Trieger: 50:51

And I didn't experience that really being safe in a circle or a group of women until I gosh how old were my kids? So I'd created it for myself before I then experienced it externally with another group and I went this is what it? Feels like to be really truly healthy, and finding it in others was really powerful for me I would say it's similar.

Sarah McLachlan: 51:20

for me it was on my third child and falling into a different circle or group and just feeling held in a way I've never, ever been before and realizing oh, this is how it can be, this is how it's meant to be Totally life changing. So before we finish up, amanda, we talked about that rite of passage and we've talked about navigating to Maga and stepping into that role. Is there anything else that we haven't covered? In terms of cycle, menstrual health and advocacy, we've covered a lot.

Amanda Trieger: 52:02

We could talk for years. We could talk for years Probably. The only other aspect that I find is really under discussed within anyone in this transition time whether that's young pregnancy or stepping into Maga is that we tend to be really disconnected from our vaginal health as well. So a bio-physical reality of checking in with our comfort around vulva and vaginal well-being it's not something that we've been taught. It's not something we're often ignoring when we're talking about libido and sex drive. They all change around transition states as well. So there's so many aspects to our sexual well-being as we go through these transition states that I'd really encourage anyone that's listening that has recurrent thrush or itchiness or irritation or dryness.

Amanda Trieger: 52:59

This Maga transition can be complicated from a bio-physical reality of how many supports do we have in place, what's our history being like with our nervous system, all impact whether or not we've got great vulva and vaginal architecture and health moving forwards in our life. I would say that's a very silent issue currently. So most women that I talk to about it will say, yes, that's a problem for me, but they're not asking for help. That's true. I would just layer that in. If you're having microbiome issues for vaginal health, if you're having bladder infections, if you're having any kind of irritation and pain, please reach out to an archipelago or someone that's vaginal microbiome specialized, because there is so many great topical ointments, pessaries, all sorts of goodies that really help to just help you to thrive and enjoy your wellbeing.

Sarah McLachlan: 53:57

It doesn't have to be something that you just put up with or grin and bear it and wait for it to pass, which I think is another. It doesn't have to be HRT or nothing. Yeah, and also I think what's important too is that if HRT is the decision that someone makes or that's the path they go on, it's not mutually exclusive. We can still work with food as medicine, herbs, nutrients, all of that without it interacting there as well, and yeah, and keeping that cycle and honoring that cycle within yourself there as well.

Amanda Trieger: 54:32

And I hope that it just starts these conversations of wow, that's really interesting, I never thought about it like that. Or oh, I'm really excited to get into my. I'm looking forward to my now, and my number one tip would just be cycle track. Yes, check in with yourself daily, whether that's lunar or menstrual. Just that is the biggest key to creating change. Yeah, and I've run. There are some mini programs that I run which are online.

Amanda Trieger: 55:06

So if anyone's interested in like learning the basics of how do we track, how do we chat, how do we temperature chart, what's all the things about cyclical wellbeing, there's a women's challenge or a women's program that's on and they've run about every six weeks, so they're on the website. I'll give you the link, and the practitioner challenge is the week after, so that's when we go a little bit more into women, holding space for women, and how do we really layer this information into everything that we do our treatment plans, our business models, our structures, the way we communicate with our clients all of it. So and that's really where the big shift is going to come is through our beautiful practitioners that are already doing this work. They just need that last key information. That's going to change. So much.

Sarah McLachlan: 55:55

Yeah, bring it all together and then be able to have that ripple effect and influence the women around them and the men too as well. Thank you so much, amanda. A beautiful episode and, like I said, like who wouldn't want to be moving into Maga right now? Hearing you talk about that was just so exciting and thrilling and I mean I'm here. But I'm also like yay, I'm here now. So I hope everyone the listeners are feeling that way too, and we will put in the show notes your website and the link to your programs there as well. So anyone that does want to embrace cycling or learn more about it, they can certainly learn a lot at your website and through you.

Amanda Trieger: 56:39

Beautiful. Thank you so much. It's been such a lovely. As I said, we could talk for days.

Sarah McLachlan: 56:46

I think we almost have. Thanks, amanda, yeah thanks, sarah.

Sarah McLachlan: 57:00

It's really common for women over 40 to experience the chaos of changing hormones, mood, metabolism and energy. But I hope you know now that common doesn't have to equal normal for you or them. You can help others understand they aren't alone in feeling this way and that perimenopause doesn't have to be horrific by subscribing, leaving a review and sharing this podcast with other women in their 40s and beyond. Thanks so much for listening and sharing your time with me today in this chaos to calm ourselves Bye.